I hear your pain. Phone makers don't try and sell phones based on the available software yet, people buy phones based on the look/sex appeal, hardware functions like cameras, and brand loyalty. They're not viewed as computing devices yet. So there's no incentive for most network providers to let you have free range on the phones, because it just opens up a whole lot of support requests ("this game doesn't work", "my phone won't turn on", etc).

PS: If you want to hack on apps for your phone, I recommend working for a phone company. ;)

Would I have to sell my soul? Or worse... program in C++?

What would we have to do to make this work, i.e. are the apps digitally signed, or do we just need the software to run on the computer?

Yeah, from my brief perusal of the docs, I think the apps have to be digitally signed to run on the phone.

There's also DRM from the distribution channel so that the apps can't be transferred from one phone to another (since the platform is designed for pay-per-download games).

It's a control-freak platform.

> Would I have to sell my soul?

Yes, but you get a health plan. And you get to contribute subject matter directly to Scott Adams.

> Or worse... program in C++?

There's plenty of Java work. Plus Motorola owns Metrowerks who own Embeddix, and they've decided that the new personal comms platform-of-choice is linux:

http://news.com.com/2100-1001-984424.html?tag=fd_lede2_hed

So it's not all bad.

I bought a T616 too (same thing as a T610 - different access bands if I understand correctly). Except for the screen in daylight, it has to be the best form factor of any phone I've ever tried. It will be fun to play with J2ME too, even though the T616's is rated very slow and we only have 2MB to play with (well... less...)

Anybody knows how to programm a mophun app that i am able to testrun on my t610 immediately? i mean without certification process.

Daniel,

What you ask is not possible. You can only run a mophun app you've programmed with the mophun SDK on the mophun emulator. To run it on your phone you need certification.

I feel your pain when it comes to mobile phones, digital rights management, etc. Though I can't really fault Synergenix (maker of the Mophun platform) for trying to make a dollar in this wireless world of chaos, I do understand the length of greed some carriers go to in order to ensure they horde as much $ as possible.

In Mophun's defense, I don't think it sucks at all. I think it's pretty cool, all things considered. Unlike BREW where you have to pay to get certified, Mophun is an easy process, and it's somewhat self regulating. The Mophun guys are making small business ideology happen at the corporate level and when everyone thought they'd fold last year they came back middle fingers ablazing. I give them a lot of credit for that.

If you want to torch anybody, flame the carriers for DRM...anyway rock on with your T610 and check out www.coolermobile.com. It's a work in progress but it should be a neat site at the end of the day.

-Craig

I'm thinking of getting a T610 but as a keen Java Developer I want to know if it will be possible to get J2ME Midp 2.0 on to the phone .. are the VM's downloadble?? Midp 2.0 has a dedicated games API !! Anyone out there with some info ??
cheers.

Hi there,

In the beginning it was our intension to make it possible for
hobbists to sign there own mophun applications, but, there
are some legal reasons this did'nt happen, firstly, that Sony
Ericsson made us be legally resposible for all mophun content,
and secondly that it would be safe for all phones, no viruses
etc.

It's very hard to be 100% sure even with a sandbox that someone
will not find a hole.

Sorry you got dissapointed,

Tony Hartley
Synergenix

BTW, Cheers Craig, I will quote you.
Quote of the day
"when everyone thought they'd fold last year they came back middle fingers ablazing"

I think i am the master of my phone and my software developed by me, but i have to pay for certing my software for my phone!

I was amazed by the Mophun SDK when I first looked at it, but at that time I didn't know of the certification thing. I don't like Java that much, so now if I want to programm something useful I'll need to do this in Java or have to go through that certification process. And as I think it's quite stupid to have to pay for every 50k game 3 to 5 € (I can buy an old PC game with better graphics for that price) I'll rather stick with Java.

I THINK YOURE A BIG LOOSER NERD I YOU WANT TO "HACK" ON APPS ON YOUR PHONE BUY THE P800 OR THE P900 OR JUST BUY A POCKET PC, CELL PHONES ARE FOR TALK ASSHOLE.

I hate to be the bearer of bad tidings,
but certified java applications are on the way.

Hartley.

So from what i understand from this discussion, if you want to play around with a t610 to see if you can create something funny with, for instance, the IR port you have to write it, bet that it works and sign and then test it on your phone... Sucks. That means that there is no easy way of playing around with the phones IR port since j2me doesn't support it...

Anyone know anything different?

Michael

I do not think it is impossible to guarantee application security for none certified Mophun apps ( look at java applets ) ..
I think certification process is important for commercial delivery but it should be possible to temporarily upload applications to handies ... Everything else sucks indeed ...

I sure would have bought another mobile phone if I knew I couldn't program it. What a rip-off. I should have known; Sony has always been on that path.
Next time after I've saved enough money and sold my current phone, I'll definitively by me a Java enabled phone without DRM and do the cool things that my friends do with their Nokia cell phones.

Hellos

I just want to report that Mophun is the easiest Game SDK (note: it was never intended as an Application SDK, u got Java and Symbian to do apps)for cellphones there is, and it is very powerfull too.
to make games for it is by far easier than Symbian and J2ME. And the 3D engine just rocks by far simpler and equally powerfull as the Fathammer 3D engine for Symbian, plus ull be able to make sis files soon, Gametrac and loads of stuff. And the SDK and tools is for free, to get certified is fairly easy, just show them a running demo of your game and u get access to mocert for your IMEI number of your phone, you can even have several IMEIs for other phones or to show to customers/friends etc.

Nils

If I understand correctly, Mophun is simply C++. If thats true, then why wont the T610/616/630 support C++ apps as available, for example, at MySymbian.com? If it is C++, then that sucks.

Neil: You understood wrong. Mophun is a platform independent RTE (Run Time Engine) just like J2ME. The exception is that Mophun is aimed at performance and games and is way faster than J2ME on the same hardware. When you program Mophun you use C or C++ (I prefer pure C) and it is then compiled into a binary that can be executed on any Mophun RTE regardless of the underlying hardware (for small programs anyway).

Max: I don't understand why you focus on the file size of the binary. Do you think it is _easier_ to develop and fit a game into ~60kb then to just hack away and don't care about file sizes? Although I agree on the prices being to high when they hit 5 euro, I think 2-3 euro are more reasonable. Remember that developers (usually) put down a lot of time into the development process. As a developer I can say that it takes a lot more time than one might first estimate, the finishing 5% often take 50% of the time to do. There is a lot of difference between a fast hack and a commercial product.

In general I was also sad about the DRM when I got my T310 a year ago, since it _only_ has Mophun. But now I rather am happy that it has Mophun, because believe me, J2ME would not be able to run "at all" on that hardware.

Just a thought: because of the knowledge I collected at my former work place: I'm quite into ARM low level programming, bits and bytes of ARM controllers. I took a look into the firmware of the T610 and from my point of view it -might- be possible to just fake the DRM functions. Especially because some manufactures do not do serious development work. So it -might- be possible to fake the return values of DRM checks in the phone and on this way -> get mophun apps running without having proper certifiaces. I other words it might be just a question of time someone shows up that disables the security checks on a particiular mobile firmware.

I'm not one of those guys spending a lot of times cracking games for whatever platform. I just want to run my own applications on the device I bought (T610 in this case). During a fortnight disassembling the firmware I would state that is is possible to fake the DRM functions by patching the firmware of the phone. Sorry for you Synergetix guys, I just thinks like any other hacking dude: How can I gain access to a system that avoids me doing things that are not part of the concept.

History told us: it's just a question of time. Some hack will make it possible to run any mophun game on modified phones without paying for it. There is no 100% security for anyting.

If anyone have licensed App for Mophun platform. Please send me App and IMEI...and i'm try crack it...i want create J2ME app for rebuild Mophun app for your phone.

I wonder how does DRM work...
Do u know any pages on the net about that?
I wonder what happens when we put some other code into - for example - mophun game file...
Will it work?